It's Levels To This

Sensei (00:00)
that's just human nature, isn't it?

Fatboi (00:03)
human nature.

Sensei (00:04)
what's what we wanted to talk about today, right?

Fatboi (00:06)
One of my favorite all time records. ⁓ conversely, at the same time that Humphrey was in the Bay and Richard Ramirez was, was, terrorizing, California as the night stalker. Thriller was rejuvenizing.

revitalizing and saving the music industry. And one of the records that help do that is the record that we're about to review and decipher and break down human nature.

Sensei (01:13)
one of the perfect pop songs. I would, I would contend human nature by Michael Jackson, but it was really written by

Fatboi (01:20)
what's the name not Steve Porcarro yeah Steve Porcarro from Toto

Sensei (01:22)
I thought it was Steve Porcarro Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Toto.

So I thought we would maybe kind of listen in on the original kind of, you know, do a little react real time kind of situation there and then visit the original demo by Mr. Pocarro and exchange notes here a little bit. So let's just jump in and let's listen to human nature.

Fatboi (01:42)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sensei (01:49)
okay, let's take a listen.

Fatboi (01:50)
It's our childhood,

man. We grew up to this stuff.

Sensei (01:52)
Everybody had this record. I had it on a cassette, everybody I knew, even like the heavy metalheads, had this record.

Fatboi (01:55)
everybody.

Sensei (01:59)
Here we go.

Fatboi (01:59)
My dad's

⁓ best friend bought this for me. One of his best friends.

Sensei (02:04)
ultimate clean tone guitar Steve Lukather of Toto on this one

Fatboi (02:12)
Boom, boom.

Sensei (02:13)
little plinky plunk that's a Luke signature

Fatboi (02:15)
But then, ⁓

Biddle do!

Sensei (02:23)
He's holding up the rhythm and tracing out the harmony.

with a beautiful chorusy 80's tone we're talking about this before

Fatboi (02:36)
Yeah, straight 80s. That's that 80s sound right there.

Sensei (02:37)
Refers to-

basically the two main guitar sounds of the 80s this is one of them

Fatboi (02:54)
Tell them that it's human nature.

Sensei (02:55)
I got that little pan delay thing going on there.

Fatboi (02:59)
Does he do me that way? Why? Tell him that is. It's a part in there that I just figured out what he said. Like only five, six, seven years ago.

Sensei (03:17)
There's things I was sleeping on this too, cuz you took it for granted when you were a kid.

Fatboi (03:20)
Yeah.

Sensei (03:23)
I was going over this part earlier, the guitar part, I'm like, I never really tried to figure it out. It really wasn't... But that little descending line is really tricky, actually.

Fatboi (03:31)
And... And...

And I want to break down how serious what Mike is talking about in this record is deeper than what most people think. owns some, man, he owns some pimp player shit, man. For real. When I break it down, it's going to make everybody be like, ⁓ wow, I never thought about it that way.

Sensei (03:43)
Okay.

deeper than it appears.

Mmm.

Nice little bridge here.

Fatboi (04:02)
Break it down.

Sensei (04:07)
That little arpeggio thing, man.

iodx7 kinda saw him here

Fatboi (04:18)
Beedle!

Sensei (04:22)
I can hear some chords, little bit of delay on the guitar, a fair amount of reverb, but kind of pushed back.

a shimmering clean guitar tone fourth position strut

Fatboi (04:44)
She's keeping him, why keeping him? A round. I had no idea what he was saying forever on that part.

Sensei (04:48)
Mmm.

Don't do me that way.

Fatboi (04:55)
She's keeping him, why keeping him A round? I had no idea what that was. Now I can hear it all day long right here. She's keeping him, why keeping him A round?

Sensei (05:09)
I don't think I ever realized what's going on there.

Fatboi (05:11)
Nobody did. Nobody ever knew what that part was saying. Yeah, it just blends in. And it's not in the credits either. It's not in the... Yeah, it's not on the lyric sheet. She's keeping him, why keeping him? A round.

Sensei (05:14)
It just sounds like a little rhythmic thing like a guitar part. just kind of blends in.

You think, not in the lyrics, she...

wow you think it's like nonsense kind of syllables to keep them the rhythm going but he doesn't waste a word like that

Fatboi (05:35)
Exactly.

And I think it's because Mike was chasing, he was chasing a synth. He chased it and he just, you know, he was probably scatting something and it just felt good and they kept it.

Sensei (05:45)
⁓ yeah, yeah,

Oh, well that chord change right there. We got to dig into that a little bit, That's nice.

Fatboi (05:57)
man. That's

probably something Quincy suggested too. Knowing him. That's the jazz in him.

Sensei (06:03)
⁓

Okay, put that in context for me about what he's saying there on that line you put.

Fatboi (06:11)
Okay, so human nature and somebody had to make me see it this way because I always listen to this song with my Childish boyhood Image

Sensei (06:19)
Yeah,

I was like 13 when this came out. I couldn't appreciate everything that was going on here, you know, so...

Fatboi (06:24)
So, you know, we weren't adults. So we didn't hear this record the way Mike is talking about it. So Mike is saying, okay, he's out. He's out on the town. The big city, the big Apple is calling. Now keep in mind, Mike used to go out to Studio 54.

Sensei (06:42)
54,

Studio 54 yeah, yeah, okay. Well, all the big celebrities did then, early 80s, right?

Fatboi (06:45)
Yeah, he used to go, he used to go out all the time.

So, so, you know, we're kids, we know nothing about this stuff. We don't know nothing about going out to the club. Might've heard it. No idea. So, but Mike, Mike started hitting the club, Studio 54 at like age 18 when he was old enough to him and LaToya had a, had a, uh, an apartment in New York and they would frequent Studio 54.

Sensei (06:53)
Might have heard the word somewhere on a magazine cover or something, but you have no idea what it's...

Fatboi (07:12)
Which is how the Off The Wall album was born. The Off The Wall album was born because the Bee Gees were tearing up the club and Mike came to the realization like, yeah, that's what I wanna.

Sensei (07:26)
That's the hot thing for this moment, yeah.

Fatboi (07:27)
That's

me, you know, so he's a dancer already and all these ballads is like you kind of taking away his superpower by making them do ballads all the time. So it's like, no, this is me because I like dancing. I'm a dancer. So we got to funk it up. So.

Sensei (07:38)
Right. We gotta, we gotta funk it up a little, yeah.

Fatboi (07:44)
Essentially, the lyrics of...

human nature are saying, okay, I'm this hot young guy going out in the big Apple. The ladies love me. I'm out at the club. Let's say, let's say studio 54. I'm out at the club. This girl over here. She likes the way I stare. Boom. Okay. Yeah. So

He met the girl and see that girl. He met her. They talked. They kicked it. They liked each other. He took her back to his penthouse.

Next morning, he wakes up. The sun is shining. He's thinking about, the streets is calling me again. I got to get out. I tap her shoulder.

and without saying, ⁓ what you about to do.

Sensei (08:29)
Hahaha

Fatboi (08:31)
I'm about to get back out in these streets again. So he's basically like, okay, yeah, we had fun last night. Okay, I'm about to wrap it up. I'm about to do this again.

Sensei (08:37)
Let's wrap it up.

Maurice will make you some eggs on the way out or something.

Fatboi (08:43)
⁓ But

you ain't got to go home, but you got to get the hell out of here. We can't stay here. You know what saying? So, and somebody hit me, but it's human nature. And the girl is saying, he do me that way? And does she do me that, you know? So the lyrics is, she's keeping him, why keeping him around? You know, all this stuff.

Sensei (08:48)
You can't stay here!

Bye bye!

Fatboi (09:13)
And that's human nature. It's like, yo, I'm having fun. I'm having fun. We're out. We're young. The city is bright.

Sensei (09:20)
but maybe

the other human is catching feelings all of a sudden, you know.

Fatboi (09:24)
The other human might be catching

feelings, but I'm just having fun. know, so, and, and, and, but why, why tell him that it's human nature? Why, why does he do me that way? Why, why did he do that? Well, I mean, I thought you, you know, you like me. I like you too, but we just had some fun and now it's time for me to get back.

Sensei (09:32)
Why?

Yeah, yeah. ⁓

Fatboi (09:47)
to the fun, I'm hitting Studio 54, what you doing? You know, if I see you there tonight, cool. But it might be another female that likes the way I stare and you know, hey, it's human nature. In other words, if you see me tonight, just keep it moving. You know, we'll speak, we'll speak. No hard feelings, we'll speak. it took me to hear those lyrics broke down as an adult.

Sensei (09:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

No hard feelings, but...

Fatboi (10:14)
for me to be like, wow.

Sensei (10:17)
Well, it's something because the song seems so syrupy and bubbly, you know? Yeah, it... Right, right.

Fatboi (10:24)
It goes over. And it's Michael Jackson. So you add that

on top of it, you're like, man, Mike wasn't doing nothing like that. Couldn't be. But he was. He was. Yeah, yeah, he was. Yeah. And we found all this stuff out even more so after he died with stories that started coming. No, Mike was no, he wasn't gay and he was definitely like Mike.

Sensei (10:32)
No, no. Yeah, more complicated than people thought, know, as we came to realize. yeah.

Yeah.

Fatboi (10:52)
has been with some top women stars.

Sensei (10:54)
Yep. Yep. You ever hear that?

There's some footage here and there, like where he slips up and uses his real voice. Oh, I remember talking like that.

Fatboi (11:00)
His real, yeah, yeah, He just slips up, uses his real voice. You know.

And that was probably the final straw for the women that he dealt with because they met him in the club and he was probably talking like this. And then when he got home, was like, yeah, you want anything to drink?

Sensei (11:23)
Germaine, we got

any orange juice left?

Fatboi (11:26)
You know, so,

you know, and I, you know, I even heard, ⁓ I even heard, you know, one of his, one of his best friends, you know, after he died, you know, documentary that came out about him, you know, you never knew Mike to cuss or anything like that. And, you know, when LaToya said the thing she said about him,

you know, when he, when he was going through one of the cases, he was like, man, my own sister, like, you know, so yeah, Mike, Mike was, Mike was a lot more ⁓ edgy than people, than his public persona let on. So when you know that about him, this song makes more sense.

Sensei (12:05)
Well, then you know that

he's hiding and playing in sight.

Fatboi (12:12)
In plain sight, in plain sight. And he was carefully crafted in that way because he knew he was groomed since he was, you know, ⁓ a small child being raised by Barry Gordy to be the biggest star in the world. Joe Jackson and, you know, Quincy Jones got, yeah. So he knew.

Sensei (12:13)
You know? ⁓

Or, yeah, and Joe Jackson, know, on, yeah, just an intense childhood into

the machine.

Fatboi (12:35)
And to the, he was ready for that and he knew how to be, how to be a star. He, he understood. He unders and we talked about this a few weeks ago. He understood the importance of mystique. He understood that. So he, he, the, the mystique was a part of his allure. Like that's why he was so big.

Sensei (12:56)
So it must be maintained in all times.

Yeah, that was well, that's the thing. Like even his look changing over the years and the surgery. I mean, there's something. Well, just over time, you start to put two and two together like he looked a little different. Yeah. But that's part of the mystique. It's like you're like literally, you know, cutting his nose off despite his face, you know, and it's like

Fatboi (13:05)
It was a mystique about that. We didn't know about surgeries.

he's changing something.

part of it.

Sensei (13:25)
There's all this repressed childhood stuff just coming out. he never. Yeah. Yeah, but that was part of the whole Michael Jackson thing was what is is going on here? It's just too much to comprehend. not just a guy singing and dancing. It's this whole like world, you know.

Fatboi (13:29)
Even the name Whacko Jacko, that's because of his mystique. It's like...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The whole,

yeah, is he gay? Is he straight? He never lets us know that's part of the, because he wears crazy clothes. Yeah. And he, he, he understood headlines. He understood a huge demo of his fans were gay. He understood these things and he understood selling.

Sensei (13:51)
wears these crazy clothes, his face is changing, his hair and you know

Fatboi (14:10)
the fantasy.

Sensei (14:11)
without having to say it explicitly. Yeah. Interesting.

Fatboi (14:13)
without having to say it explicitly. He understood

selling the fantasy. So the fantasy of Michael Jackson, yeah, all of you can have me perhaps, whether you're gay, straight, female, whatever, the fantasy was there because I'm not telling you that I'm heterosexual. Figure that out on your own, but the fantasy is there so you can think what you want to think.

Sensei (14:26)
whatever. Yeah.

truth.

That's the legend. It becomes bigger than the person. Yeah

Fatboi (14:42)
it becomes bigger

and, and you know, I'm going to be the, I'm the biggest star in the world and you know, I'm, I'm, I'm for everybody and I'm a mysterious guy. Like what is a day in the life of MJ like, you know, and, those, those that know him, I mean, yeah, he was that, but those that were around him, he was a normal dude. When you got to know him, he was a normal dude.

Sensei (15:05)
Well, day to day, you can't escape

from where you came, right? Really. But like, something you said, though, it was interesting to me about the arrangement of the song. Remind you of the big city. And there's something about the sound of the way they did the synths with the little chimey bell DX7 kind of thing that I've heard in like a million soundtracks from the 80s where the movie took place in New York City and you see the skyline, even with the twin towers and all this stuff when they were still there.

Fatboi (15:10)
Yeah.

big city

Yeah, yeah.

Something about New York.

Sensei (15:35)
It has that sound where it's not rock and roll. It's got a little funk jazz in there somewhere, but not quite. It's got a little sophisticated chord change, clean sound to it, even though it's like the busyness of the city, the industry of the city. I don't know where, but that sound was a thing in the early 80s, especially for movie soundtracks that had New York as a place.

Fatboi (15:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

human nature has a tinge of that sound in it with the, with, with the, ⁓ what, yeah.

Sensei (16:05)
with like the chime bell pad kind of thing

and

Fatboi (16:09)
It had it has that in it. And it's something I like to do. You know, we discussed this before, like whenever I flew into another city for work. When I'm in my cab riding around the city. And listening to the music on the radio and looking at the city while the music is playing on the radio, you know, lot of these records of the artists that's from there.

The city feels like that. It has a sound. and him being, even though he spent most of his life in California, the easiness of it is LA.

Sensei (16:33)
city has a sound.

Fatboi (16:43)
But that big, yeah, know, listening to human nature, you gotta be riding in a Rolls Royce.

Sensei (16:45)
sophisticated sound. ⁓

Let's summarize what we got going on here with human nature. What's the takeaway about human nature, do you think, for these kids today?

The lyrics, the impact of the production, what do think is its legacy?

Fatboi (17:06)
Man, I think its legacy is music that...

puts you in a place and a time that you can close your eyes and visualize where you are.

Sensei (17:16)
And where are you in human nature?

Fatboi (17:18)
In the big city I'm out and about.

having a good time.

Sensei (17:22)
It sounds rich too.

Fatboi (17:24)
Yeah, so

I'm definitely riding in the Rolls, or the Bentley, or the Maybach. I'm cruising around, enjoying the sights. Just, man, the city is electric tonight. It's electric.

Sensei (17:37)
⁓ I'm telling my driver,

Jeeves, take me to Studio 54.

Fatboi (17:43)
Studio

54 and I'm in Studio 54. I'm just chilling. Might have a drink, might not. Just depends on how I'm And I see this girl watching me from the other side.

Sensei (17:55)
And from there on,

from that point on, it's just let human nature take over.

Fatboi (18:00)
Human nature takes over. And I didn't say anything. She came up to me and said she likes the way I stare. I didn't say anything to her. There it is. Then you write a song about it. there it is. She liked the way I stared. That's what got this whole thing started. All I was doing was looking. I was just appreciating her beauty. And she took that as a signal to come up and say, I like the way you stare. And they're like, do you now?

Sensei (18:06)
Hey, what happens in Studio 54 stays in Studio 54 unless you're Michael Jackson then you write a song about it.

Hey, cuz-

Fatboi (18:28)
Okay?

Sensei (18:28)
Well,

that's because she knows there's... Alright, thank you for watching.

Fatboi (18:28)
levels to this.